I think I understand the FISA bill. Do I?

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That's a very interesting article, and I give you cudos for being able to translate such dry legalise into something readable. So it seems as if the 4th amendment isn't in as bad a shape as we thought it was originally. However, what about the executive authority I hear about that is included in the bill, if the information being gathered is secret and the president stamps it as secret, then it bypasses any need for a warrant... at least that's the general impression I got.

Are Dodd and Feingold's beliefs that this compromises the rule of law unfounded?
[this is good]
There's a difference between "the 4th amendment isn't in as bad a shape" and "there's nothing to worry about". I think that some of the rhetoric of the civil liberties crowd is overblown, perhaps for political effect, perhaps because they don't have the solid technical and legal knowledge needed to understand the bill as written, or perhaps because I don't understand it.

I have been a supporter of both Dodd and Feingold for a long time, and am on their mailing lists. I agree with the vast majority of what Senator Dodd has said, but please note taht he has concentrated mostly on Title II, the retroactive immunity for thetelcos breaking the law when the administration violating the laws of the time, and has said very little about Title I, the new law.

The most detailed criticism that he has offered is as follows. I've reformatted the text a bit to make his list of issues a bit more clear.

We also urge you to correct the significant flaws in the FISA provisions of the Senate bill, some of which were addressed in the House version. The Senate bill authorizes widespread surveillance involving innocent Americans and does not provide adequate checks and balances to protect their rights.

First, it permits the government to come up with its own procedures for deciding who is a target of surveillance, and provides no meaningful consequences if the FISA Court later determines the government’s procedures are not even reasonably designed to wiretap foreigners.

Second, even if the government is wiretapping foreigners outside the U.S., those foreigners need not be terrorists, suspected of any wrongdoing, or even be of any specific intelligence interest. That means the government could legally collect all communications between Americans here at home and the rest of the world.

Third, the Senate version of the bill failed to prohibit the practice of reverse targeting – namely, wiretapping a person overseas when what the government is really interested in is an American here at home with whom the foreigner is communicating.

Fourth, the Senate version of the bill failed to include meaningful privacy protections for the Americans whose communications will be collected in vast new quantities.
We strongly believe that these problems should be corrected as the legislation moves forward.
I think his first point is a little weak. Given that comunications that is Constitutionally protected is mixed in with communications that is fair game for the intelligence agencies to go after, someone has to create the procedures both fro targeting the legitimate targets and for minimizing the impact on US persons. Who should do that? The government or some private company? Whoever does it will probably be exposed to protected communications in the process of monitoring and debugging the software that separates one from the others. I claim that the correct answer is the government with plenty of oversight and safeguards. Thus "the government to come up with its own procedures" is not in and of itself a problem. That our governemnt is currently corrupt and untrustworthy, now that's a problem.

On his second, point which is essentially that probable cause need not be given for targeting foreigners, we get into details pretty quickly. For communicatiosn between foreigners located overseas, probable cause hasn't been needed in the past. They are outside US juisdiction and have no US protected rights. The CIA and NSA have always been free to spy on foreigners without justifying why to anyone but their own management and bean counters.

When Dodd says "the government could legally collect all communications between Americans here at home and the rest of the world" I believe that he is engaging in hyperbole. Any reasonable minimization procedures would preclude listening to all US/foreign communications. Still, some communications between US persons and people overseas will be be capure despite the best possible targeting and minimization procedures, and there is reason to be concerned.

On his thir point, he may be correct that "the bill failed to prohibit the practice of reverse targeting", but it at least tries to. Section 702 (b) (2) reads
may not intentionally target a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States if the purpose of such acquisition is to target a particular, known person reasonably believed to be in the United States
I'm not convinced that the bill is as strong on this point, however, as it should be, and that there aren't too many loop holes.

On his fourth and final point, that "the bill failed to include meaningful privacy protections for the Americans whose communications will be collected in vast new quantities", in several places there is language such as this:

no information obtained or evidence derived from such acquisition, except under circumstances in which the target of the acquisition is determined not to be a United States person, shall be received in evidence or otherwise disclosed in any trial, hearing, or other proceeding in or before any court, grand jury, department, office, agency, regulatory body, legislative committee, or other authority of the United States, a State, or political subdivision thereof, and no information concerning any United States person acquired from such acquisition shall subsequently be used or disclosed in any other manner by Federal officers or employees without the consent of such person, except with the approval of the Attorney General if the information indicates a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person.
So the question arises as to whether the protections apparently set out in these sections is "meaningful". For this and many other questions brought up by Dodd and others, there is no definite answer at present. One of the consequences of the Common Law basis of our legal system is that questions of interetation have no answers until the courts actually hear arguments and render decisions. This is why I support the ACLU's challenges of this law. Experts and amateurs alike can offer interpretations and opinions, but they don't count until the court actually is involved.

Wow! This got rather long and I haven't even answered your question about executive authority. Sorry. Maybe another reply in a bit.

Okay, so basically the new amendments say that any US person is still under the protection of FISA and that the courts *may* rule that a US person's privacy is protected within it, but we don't know until some precedents are set.

So then the question about immunity arises... are telecoms being accorded immunity for just the lawsuits that fall under this new bill's purview? Meaning ones involving foreign citizens operating in the US. Or are all charges made regarding US persons being dropped as well, effectively creating a particular point in time when the surveillance agencies had carte blanche to conduct all manner of illegal stuff?


Yes. This bill makes it clear that

1. The government can order the telcos to comply.
2. The telcos can appeal the order to the FISA court.
3. If the court backs the gov't, the telcos must comply.
4. If the telcos comply with a lawful order under this bill they are immune.

That's under the new rules in Title I. Under Title II they are immune for going along with the illegal requests from the gov't. This vaguely makes sense if you think that the legality of those requests is debatable. I reject both the notion that the legality is debatable, and that they should be immunized. If the the legality is an issue, it can only be decided by a court decision. That's one reason for wanting the court actions to be possible. Another is that it rewards those telcos who went along with gov't law-breaking, which is especially bad since Qwest who stood by the law was punished economically. Yet another is that law suits are one of the very last hopes we have for uncovering what the gov't actually did in the past and that is important for preventing it in the future (with new laws), punishing it for the past and discouraging it in the future (with the threat of punishment).

The new rules are reasonable. The retroactive immunity is horrible. My 2 bits.
[this is good]
Hey Jim - Great article! The FISA bill is something that really concerns me. I'm glad you went through the trouble to explain it.

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